My roommate took Soc 113 last semester and hated it because she couldn't understand the basis for any racist views and how anyone could think differently of a different group just because of their skin color. (There are many different races where she lives, and she's in the minority as a white person). She talked about some of the stuff her class did, so I thought I knew what I was getting myself into. I'll be honest, I know I have some views that aren't exactly PC and are even somewhat racist, but I came in with in open mind. Here lies my problem: Where are the solutions?!?
I grew up in a town where >95% of the population is white, majority of whom are Christians. With this background, I've learned some negative views through opinions of family, friends, neighbors, the local news, national news, and school. Some of these negative views have come up in class as discussion topics. Through these discussions, I have changed some of my ideas about certain topics for the better. But the thing is, there's one comment that seems to come up in each of these discussions that is sending me over the edge: "Why do people think that? That's just stupid! That's just wrong!" ...Thank you. I am now thoroughly convinced of the error of my ways and have converted to your method of thinking. Yes, people (myself included) come up with warped views of things because of the society and environment they grow up in, and a lot of it is from ignorance. HOWEVER, telling me I'm being ignorant and being stupid isn't going to help anything. For me, I wanted to defend my position even more just to prove that there is validity to what I believe. Telling me one of my ideas is dumb isn't going to make me go home and Google your point of view to see why you're right. Keep dreaming. In some of these situations, I've felt that these comments make the other side ignorant since the only defense against my opinion is "It's just wrong to think that."
So we've recognized an idea is wrong. Great. Grand. Class have been a success, right? I disagree. I think this class is great to bring light to the issues we're dealing with. But what good is it if all we're left with is "knowing" someone else is wrong? We aren't coming up with solutions. Granted, I'm not saying our small group needs to rise up to abolish racism and discrimination and prejudices from the entire world before we graduate. I just feel we should be finding more from this class than "Racism's wrong." Tell me why, not just that it is and that it exists. Use facts, not emotions, because you can't refute my emotions with yours. I think this is one of the solutions we can take with us from this class. Being informed is good, but it's better to be educated and help educate others. We did mention one day that education was the best solution, but it's not going to magically start happening once we take the final test and move on with our lives if our current discussions don't incorporate this. I do owe thanks for many comments that have helped educate me thus far in the course, but no problem is being helped in any way, shape or form by saying it's wrong and leaving it at that.
(I have noticed Charlie trying to get people to expand these ideas that something's "wrong," but since we have a limited time frame, there have been a times when the final word on a topic had to be, simply, "It's stupid to think that" since we had to move on to other things. And it doesn't come up in every discussion, but it comes up much more often than it should.)
Monday, October 19, 2009
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I don't believe your views are necessarily wrong. They are your views just as everyone owns their own. You do not have to change them to fit in. In fact we need people strong on both sides to continue to have balance. The issues are not so easily solved. No one should feel stupid. You can be completely against something that someone else supports. Standing up for your views is a good thing. I think Charlie is just trying to get us to see things from a different perspective than perhaps we have been used to seeing them. Just as you mentioned about where and how you grew up, that may have limited you because you only saw things one way. That one way may be just fine for you but at least you are seeing and hearing some new things and that is good also.
ReplyDeleteI can definitely see your points, and I think I agree with you. It's hard to really know how racism becomes such a large part of a person's life. The only thing we can do now is realize that racism is still out there today and that we need to do our part to keep it out of our lives and those around us. Besides everyone just doing their part individually to stop racism, I don't think that there really is a solution. It's a hard topic to discuss because we were born into a time when racism wasn't full force, but it is definitely out there depending on where you are and who you're with. I think it would be interesting to talk about what we see and what we think could be done to put a halt on racism. I also think the videos that we watched in class were very informative and helpful showing us how present racism is today.
ReplyDelete"I just feel we should be finding more from this class than 'Racism's wrong.' Tell me why, not just that it is and that it exists."
ReplyDeleteKarianne,
If you need to be told why racism is wrong from a class, then I feel bad for you. I do understand that you were raised in an area with mostly white people surrounding you, but do you truly feel there is nothing fundamentally wrong with judging a person based on their skin color? Never mind the fact that race itself is a socially constructed tool that people use to classify each other into groups of varying skin tones. Every single person on this planet is a child of God. As a BYU student, I'm sure you have probably heard that more than once. God loves every single person that He has ever created regardless of how dark or light they are. That being said, how can anyone justify their actions when they are treating someone differently or poorly based on race? The truth is, they can't. Racism is wrong because not only are we all human beings, but we are all brothers and sisters. White people are no better than anyone else. There is nothing about my skin color that makes me more talented or smarter or more honest or moral. All my skin color says about me is that I sunburn easily. Sadly, someone else decided a long time ago that it also meant that people who looked like I do deserved to be in charge, but they were wrong, and hopefully in your quest to become an educated person you will come to understand that.
People are raised in situations like yours all the time (I was), but most have the desire to learn and grow from their experiences. You demand facts, not emotions, as a response to an illogical, emotion-laden temper tantrum. If you choose to, you can believe that 1+1=3 or the sky is green simply because nobody can give you an argument you like. So what, right?
ReplyDeleteBack it up for a second. Kd & Nate--did you guys even read the full post? First off, it’s a far cry to go from saying someone has some racist views to saying someone is racist or a white supremacist. Secondly, my question isn’t “Racism’s wrong, so what?” My question is “Racism’s wrong, so what’s the solution? Where do we go from here? What are we going to do about it?”
ReplyDeleteI’m not so clueless and dense that I’m asking why racism’s wrong, fundamentally, I’m asking why racism is wrong in how it affects society, so that we can address those issues and resolve them. That’s why the answer needs to be factual. Nothing can be fixed with a war of emotions. If it could, then we would’ve accomplished a lot more, politically.
You guys totally misinterpreted. But, giving you the benefit of the doubt, even if I was completely racist and elitist, you still didn’t catch half of what I said. “telling me I’m being ignorant and being stupid isn’t going to help anything […] Telling me one of my ideas is dumb isn’t going to make me go home and Google your point of view to see why you’re right.” So thanks for telling me I don’t believe in God, I’m uneducated, and I have no desire to learn or improve.
"It’s a far cry to go from saying someone has some racist views to saying someone is racist or a white supremacist."
ReplyDelete...
Your post wasn't really clear, so I can see why it was misinterpreted. But I think I understand where you'e coming from because sociology in general can be frusrating to me. I often feel as if it's hard to come up with a solution to the issues we talk about. I think that this is because it's hard to find a solution that will work for everyone involved in the issue, simply because every idiviual is different.
ReplyDeleteBut what Charlie told us at the beginning of the semester was that he hoped that through this class we would be able to view these issues from a different perspective. And this class has certainly accomplished this. He didn't say that the point of the class was to come up with solutions to these problems. Of course you ask the question, " Well what good is this class if we don't learn how we can solve these problems?" I would say that the first step toward solving the problems is to bcome educated and aware of the issues (which is what we're doing in this class). I would talk to Charlie if you think we should incorporate solutions to the issues into the class. But if we don't, and you really want to be proactive in solving these issues, I don't think this class will stop you from doing it. But once again, I'm not sure I understand exactly what you are looking for.
"fundamentally, I’m asking why racism is wrong in how it affects society"
This question seems unclear to me, but I will try to answer it with facts. I think it goes back to the belief that all men are created equal. So if all men are created equal and racism is by definition "discriminatory or abusive behavior towards members of another race" it would make sense that it is wrong. And since discriminatory and abusive behavior causes harm to people, and people who experience racism are part of our society, our society is negatively affeted by it. This is logical to me, But I don't know what facts you are looking for, if you could be more specific and clear, maybe someone could answer your post accurately:)
I agree with Miss Piggy and I apologize if I misinterpreted your question. I think if you wanted to know how to solve racism, perhaps it would have been best to simpy state that, instead of asking why racism is wrong (which is the question I responded to). If you really think that I called you an uneducated, stubborn athiest, then you should really re-read what I wrote. My main point was that all people are of equal value regardless of skin color. Period. Those are facts, so I don't know what else you are looking for.
ReplyDeleteI think the reason we talk about all of these different issues in class is because they are all connected. That is probably why we talked about racism so early in the semester. So, when you ask how racism is wrong in how it affects society, I think maybe you missed the connection between racism and everything else. For example, race is very much connected to slavery, classism, our treatment of the Native Americans, and everything else we talk about in class every day. Also, all of that stuff affects The prevalent issues in our society today like healthcare, gangs, drugs, immigration and other things. So how does racism affect society negatively? Well, how different would our economy be without racism? What would our crime rates look like? Who would be committing the crimes? What would our cities look like? How different would our neighborhoods be? Our general education levels? our attitudes about immigration? I think one of the purposes of this class is to show just how everything connects to negatively affect our society, and then it is basically up to us to decide what to do about it. I hope that helped a little bit, I wasn't exactly sure what you were looking for.
ReplyDelete"..." was me being speechless at the time, not agreeing with or endorsing the comment in any way. We may subconsciously judge people, but there is no such thing as being "somewhat racist," as our classmate keeps trying to claim. People are racist or they aren't, and under no circumstance whatsoever is it okay to be racist to any degree. Also, asking for a solution is completely ridiculous when the person asking for it seems to want to be the problem.
ReplyDeleteI do hope that the issue here is some people don't understand the differences between prejudice, discrimination, and racism.
Racism is wrong and in an ideal world it should not exist, but let's face, there are so many people out there, we can't control their thoughts. People come from all different types of backgrounds and have had different experiences with races, and were raised differently. As much as I would like to see racism disappear, I honestly don't think it will ever. It can be alleviated, with people being more tolerant, but as far as an "end-all solution" a lot more has to happen (i.e. second coming). I know this sounds pessimist, but that's just the way it is. As the Avenue Q song, "Everyone's a little bit racist." Indeed everybody is.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbud8rLejLM
kd, I owe you an apology as well. I was trying to make two points and I realize that they got blurred since I'm used to using sarcasm and inflection a lot to prove points, which don't translate very well into a blog form. It was the "Every single person on this planet is a child of God. As a BYU student, I'm sure you have probably heard that more than once" comment that I felt was a direct attack at my belief in God, but the uneducated & stubborn attack was from Nate, not you.
ReplyDeleteAnd everyone else, I realize now my post wasn't as clear as I originally intended it. I don't NEED solutions or definitions, per say, it was more of what I felt was a solution to help those with racist views to change thier viewpoints or listen to the other side. I didn't flat out say that though, so I apologize for the confusion. But thank you for your answers! I think they're really good!