"Washington » In a meeting with gay-rights activists last week, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid criticized the LDS Church for backing a ballot measure banning same-sex marriage in California, saying the leaders of his faith should have stayed out of the contentious political fight.
Reid, a Democrat from Nevada, is the highest ranking elected official who is a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. He previously has not commented on the flood of Mormon money and volunteers who helped propel Proposition 8 to victory in November.
But three organizers of the past weekend's National Equality March said Reid brought up the topic during a conversation in his office.
"He said that he thought it was a waste of church resources and good will," said Derek Washington, a Nevadan who worked as the outreach director for the march. "He said he didn't think it was appropriate."
Reid spokesman Jon Summers would not discuss the private meeting, but he didn't deny the conversation took place.
"While Senator Reid agrees with his church that marriage is between a man and a woman," Summers said, "he also believes that the resources that went into the Proposition 8 effort could have been put to better use."
LDS Church officials declined to comment Monday. But Frank Schubert, campaign manager for the pro-Prop 8 movement, said: "All churches have not only the opportunity to speak out on important public issues, but really a moral obligation to do so."
The Mormon Church, headquartered in Salt Lake City, repeatedly has fought attempts to legalize same-sex marriages. California's Prop 8 was no different. Church leaders announced their support in a letter that was read during Sunday services in meetinghouses throughout the Golden State. LDS officials called for financial donations and volunteers. Members of the church did not disappoint."
More than 1,000 Utahns contributed either individually or through a business to the Prop 8 fight, giving $3.8 million. More than 70 percent of that cash went to groups backing the gay-marriage ban. Utah ranked second only to California in the amount given to the ballot battle.
The LDS Church kicked in nearly $190,000 in in-kind contributions to ProtectMarriage.com, the leading pro-Prop. 8 group. In the end, Prop 8 passed with 52 percent of the vote.
Marchers in Sunday's equality rally, which drew tens of thousands to the U.S. Capitol, repeatedly referenced the Prop 8 defeat in signs, statements and even face paint. But when organizers sat down with Reid, it wasn't a topic they intended to raise. They wanted to thank him for supporting the march and push him on their desire for federal action giving gay Americans the ability to get married, serve openly in the military and fight workplace discrimination.
Reid signed a letter supporting the march and encouraged a sustained lobbying campaign.
In the meeting, those present touched on issues most important to them. Dan Choi, a veteran of the Iraq War, who was booted from the military under the "Don't ask, don't tell" policy, thanked Reid for lobbying President Barack Obama on his behalf. Robin McGehee, of California, talked about her own family. Then, McGehee said, Reid brought up his LDS faith and discussed a recent meeting with Mormons in which he criticized the Prop 8 efforts.
"He personally said they needed to be focused on other things," she said, "and he felt it was harmful for the church to focus on such a divisive issue."
By Matt Canham
The Salt Lake Tribune
Thank you Bro. Reid!
ReplyDeleteIt's fine if everyone has their own opinion and I really don't want to offend anyone but all of you who are members of the LDS church should also be in support of Prop. 8. It may not have been your initial political standing but it's about time we all stand up for what is truth and support our prophets even if you think it is infringing on other peoples rights. It wasn't just some church leader who decided to ask the members of the LDS church to support Prop. 8 it was the PROPHET who is the mouth piece of the Lord (D&C 1:38). I know a lot of people who believe gay marriage is wrong but are still against Prop. 8 because they think it is taking away rights but what happened to morals? Since the beginning of time marriage has been between a man and a woman that is the way God intended it to be. Quit trying to say that we need to separate church and state. It is impossible, it is such a part of who a person is even if you claim to be atheist, that is your religion. Stand up for what you believe in or don't claim to.
ReplyDeleteI think its perfectly fine for Senator Reid to have an opinion that goes against what the church has said. He is entitled to choose and speak for himself and he can criticize whomever he wants to. All people are encouraged BY the church to carefully think out political issues for themselves and to vote for and with candidates and legislation that they think is right. When I was baptized I didn't agree to vote as a block depending on what the church has said. This issue isn't black and white. Opposing viewpoints help to examine the issue from all angles. We shoudn't turn off our brains just because somebody we trust and admire already has an opinion.
ReplyDeleteHarold B. Lee said, "There will be some things that take patience and faith. You may not like what comes from the authority of the Church. It may contradict your political views. It may contradict your social views. It may interfere with some of your social life." I think this explains perfectly what happened in Prop. 8. It wasn't so much of a political issue as it was a moral issue. And yeah the church tells us to choose and think for ourselves, but very rarely does it actually counsel us that we should actually make a stand against an issue and vote in it's favor. That's when it stopped becoming so much as a political issue that the church was involved in but an issue on upholding our values and following the prophet. I agree with Sereen that yes you may have your own opinion but when the Prophet comes out and makes statements for or against something, it is our duty as Latter-day Saints to support our Prophet and do what he says. Even if we don't agree.
ReplyDeleteOn the same topic... I believe that the issue of Prop 8, and the larger issue of gay marriage coupled with the deterioration of the family, has finally pushed us up to the wall of faith. No more trying to please both society's norms and God. The paths are getting much too different to traverse both. Choose one. As was already stated, the prophet gave counsel, not from his own opinion, but as the mouthpiece of the Lord. We still have our agency, and we can choose whether or not we will heed his counsel.
ReplyDeletePresident Gordon B. Hinckley in November of 1999 said:
"I hasten to add that we deal only with those legislative matters which are of a strictly moral nature or which directly affect the welfare of the Church. We have opposed gambling and liquor and will continue to do so. We regard it as not only our right but our duty to oppose those forces which we feel undermine the moral fiber of society. Much of our effort, a very great deal of it, is in association with others whose interests are similar. We have worked with Jewish groups, Catholics, Muslims, Protestants, and those of no particular religious affiliation, in coalitions formed to advocate positions on vital moral issues. Such is currently the case in California [prop 22], where Latter-day Saints are working as part of a coalition to safeguard traditional marriage from forces in our society which are attempting to redefine that sacred institution. God-sanctioned marriage between a man and a woman has been the basis of civilization for thousands of years. There is no justification to redefine what marriage is. Such is not our right, and those who try will find themselves answerable to God.
Some portray legalization of so-called same-sex marriage as a civil right. This is not a matter of civil rights; it is a matter of morality. Others question our constitutional right as a church to raise our voice on an issue that is of critical importance to the future of the family. We believe that defending this sacred institution by working to preserve traditional marriage lies clearly within our religious and constitutional prerogatives. Indeed, we are compelled by our doctrine to speak out.
Nevertheless, and I emphasize this, I wish to say that our opposition to attempts to legalize same-sex marriage should never be interpreted as justification for hatred, intolerance, or abuse of those who profess homosexual tendencies, either individually or as a group. As I said from this pulpit one year ago, our hearts reach out to those who refer to themselves as gays and lesbians. We love and honor them as sons and daughters of God. They are welcome in the Church. It is expected, however, that they follow the same God-given rules of conduct that apply to everyone else, whether single or married.
I commend those of our membership who have voluntarily joined with other like-minded people to defend the sanctity of traditional marriage. As part of a coalition that embraces those of other faiths, you are giving substantially of your means. The money being raised in California has been donated to the coalition by individual members of the Church. You are contributing your time and talents in a cause that in some quarters may not be politically correct but which nevertheless lies at the heart of the Lord’s eternal plan for His children, just as those of many other churches are doing. This is a united effort."
It is so interesting to me that people want to applaud a man that speaks his opinion when he goes against the church, but somehow the church does not have the right to come out and have a stand on something. It seems so contradictory. Those opposing the church are so angry that the church took a stand. Why shouldn't they and why can't they? I love what President Hinckley said "Others question our constitutional right as a church to raise our voice on an issue that is of critical importance to the future of the family. We believe that defending this sacred institution by working to preserve traditional marriage lies clearly within our religious and constitutional prerogatives. Indeed, we are compelled by our doctrine to speak out. We should speak out and stand up to and oppose things that go against our core beliefs and the foundational doctrine that we claim to believe. We have every right just as those that believe differently. It is so wrong that just because one does this that somehow they are labeled with words like racist, intolerant, closed minded. It simply is not true.
ReplyDeleteHere is an interesting statement from the church that was released after Proposition 8 passed:
ReplyDelete"Before it accepted the invitation to join broad-based coalitions for the amendments, the Church knew that some of its members would choose not to support its position. Voting choices by Latter-day Saints, like all other people, are influenced by their own unique experiences and circumstances. As we move forward from the election, Church members need to be understanding and accepting of each other and work together for a better society." (Church Responds to Same-Sex Marriage Votes, LDS Newsroom, 5 November 2008).
My interpretation of this is that is perfectly okay for me to disagree with Proposition 8 even though I am a member of the LDS Church.
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ReplyDeleteAnd to tack on to Charlie's argument. If I don't live in California or have any right to vote there, then why can't I oppose this measure? Was it not a call for those who can do something about it to act? So really, those of us who couldn't do anything other than cheer for or criticize Prop 8 should just close our mouths about whether or not it is following counsel because we were given no counsel. It was outside our sphere of influence. Yes we can have opinions and mine is that I am against Prop 8. I am not against the groups that were for it, but I personally am against that measure, but since I could not do anything about it, I tried to ignore it as best I could. But I just couldn't take the assumptions about others and the intolerance of others opinions anymore. Sorry if this seems like I am being intolerant, and I understand that some may take it that way, but we all need to get over ourselves and just let this thing die. The vote is over, Prop 8 passed, so quit arguing about what people should have done or did or whatever. There are more important issues out there concerning the deterioration of the family like divorce--the ending of marriages. So rather than fight about people wanting to commit to relationships with one another regardless of who it is, should be not try and protect marriage from the forces that are actually causing families to disintegrate like divorce? Just a thought.
ReplyDeleteThis was recently posted on the lds.org newsroom commentary:
ReplyDelete"The need for civility is perhaps most relevant in the realm of partisan politics. As the Church operates in countries around the world, it embraces the richness of pluralism. Thus, the political diversity of Latter-day Saints spans the ideological spectrum. Individual members are free to choose their own political philosophy and affiliation. Moreover, the Church itself is not aligned with any particular political ideology or movement. It defies category. Its moral values may be expressed in a number of parties and ideologies.
"Furthermore, the Church views with concern the politics of fear and rhetorical extremism that render civil discussion impossible. As the Church begins to rise in prominence and its members achieve a higher public profile, a diversity of voices and opinions naturally follows. Some may even mistake these voices as being authoritative or representative of the Church. However, individual members think and speak for themselves. Only the First Presidency and the Twelve Apostles and their designated representatives speak for the whole Church."
The church itself recognizes and encourages a wide spectrum of political and social ideological views. It is inevitable. I am Canadian. I am gay. I will have a different perspective on any number of political issues than a heterosexual man living in Utah. This is inevitable, and this diversity is what enriches the church AND society.
Be careful not to condemn someone for having a different view on Prop 8. The church has never told me to support it. In fact, the prophet has never mandated that ANYONE support it, only encouraged us to. And the spectrum of political and social views, including Reid, should be tolerated and even appreciated.
I find it in direct opposition to what Elder Oaks addressed at the BYU-ID devotional a couple weeks ago to tell people to "close our mouths" regarding Prop 8. We all have our freedom of religion and freedom of speech to make known our opinions and to not fear retaliation.
ReplyDeleteIn his speech, Elder Oaks said, "In fact, the Proposition 8 battle was not about civil rights, but about what equal rights demand and what religious rights protect." Have you ever thought of the debate around marriage in this way? He later says, "We follow Jesus Christ by living the law of chastity. God have this commandment, and He has never revoked or changed it....No one is to engage in sexual relations outside the bounds of marriage. It is a sin to violate the law of chastity."
I think that Harry Reid coming out against the Church only hurts the Church. If he wants to support the Church he belongs to, he, as a well known public figure, needs to think before he speaks.
p.s.-I mean gave, not have
ReplyDeleteOr is a person, by telling Reid he should "close his mouth" and not express his opinions, the one going against Oaks' statement, that he has the right to "make known his opinions and not fear retaliation," as you put it?
ReplyDeleteIt's a two way street here. The church does not condemn a difference of opinion here on the prop 8 debate. (See Charlie's above comment)
Your opinion is valid. So is his. Democracy means you both can let it be known.
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ReplyDeleteI agree with Frank Sheburt, religious institutions should have the right to speak on political issues. For the LDS church this was not just a political issue, it was a moral issue. Of course the church would make a great effort to preserve and protect the sacred institution of marriage. Reid wrongfully criticizes.
ReplyDeleteI agree that religious institutions should have the right to speak on political issues and moral issues. However, Senator Reid said he felt it was inappropriate and that he thought the church should not have gotten involved in such a divisive issue. Did he wrongfully criticize the church? Maybe, but probably not. He is entitled to voice his opinion, just as the church is able to voice their views. He did not criticize the church's view on marriage, but rather the use of church resources in the effort. Sentaor Reid supports the church view of marriage, but not the use of resources to fight how others want to define marriage. So I guess you wrongfully criticize Senator Reid, but more importantly as Christopher said, "Democracy means that you both [the Church and Senator Reid] can let it be known." But don't condemn him for something he didn't do. He never said the church should not voice their views, but rather that they should not have used church funds. He protects their right to speak out.
ReplyDelete